My Teen Thinks School is Pointless: How Do I Help?

For a lot of kids, their kind of link or connection to school is not one that's loved or appreciated or really connects with who they are or what their skill set is ultimately gonna be, and that's hard.

It is hard because if a young person is kind of going to school every day and feeling very little purpose in that, that's really hard for them and really hard for a parent.

So the last thing that that child or teen needs is for us to come in and say, well, you have to do it. Everyone does it. That's all there is to it. Welcome back to the Parenting Pair Podcast. I'm Dr. Annalise Caron.

And I'm Dr. Suzanne Allen.

And today, we're going to jump into a listener question that we received. Okay? Dear parenting para, I'm writing because my 15 year old has been telling me that school doesn't matter. He claims subjects like algebra and history are a waste of time since it doesn't apply to real life or anything he will do. I try to listen and understand, but I'm at a loss.

When I tell him places algebra does come up in fields like tech jobs, accountants, or carpenters, he then tells me he won't be doing those jobs and that English doesn't matter either since AI can write for you. I'm watching him become less and less engaged at school. Please help me help him see that school matters. I have to say this question or some version of this question, kind of like school is pointless, you know, what should I do as a parent? Or a teenager in my office saying school is pointless, this doesn't apply, like what am I going do?

Why am I

even taking this class? It's ridiculous. I'm never going to use this.

This is such a common question. All the time. All the time. Every single year, multiple times, this question in my life, either at the therapy office or in my neighborhood, this comes up all of

the time. And what an awful feeling for kids. Right? Oh my gosh. Just think how much of your time you spend doing something that you think, I'm never going to use this.

Why do I even need to know this? Yeah. And why am I here? What is the point of even showing up at nine hours of school for this? And I

think it's really important for us adults to remember that. You know, for a lot of kids, you know, their kind of link or connection to school is not one that's loved or appreciated or really connects with who they are or what their skill set is ultimately going to be.

Yeah. And that's hard. It is hard because, you know, when we look at kind of research and information, right, on purpose and when people feel like they have a purpose, their motivation, their engagement, their task initiation, right? So if a young person is kind of going to school every day and feeling very little purpose in that, it's really hard for them and really hard for a parent.

So the last thing that that child or teen needs is for us to come in and say, well, you have to do it. Everyone does it. I did it. You know, that's all there is to it. Right?

And though there may be some truth, you know? Yeah. There are laws Taking a lot of time. Teens have to go to school. Children have to go to school.

Right? Like that is a thing.

And in life, we do have to do a lot of things that maybe don't feel of great purpose or value or deeply connected to us spiritually. Right. That's also something we have to learn to do. I never feel a deep spiritual connection to my values when I'm working on taxes or I don't know. Right.

And changing my dishwasher.

Yeah. Administrative work. When I'm picking up my house. I mean, some people love that and really feel energized. I have a friend who's energized by it, loves it, feels great.

That's not my feeling.

I love our job. Yes. And yet, when someone has a mess in the bathroom and I'm in there unclogging

the toilet and cleaning it In the office, absolutely. When you have a client waiting outside and the toilet's overflowing, this has happened more than once for us. Yes, it has. It's unpleasant. But it's a part of running a business, running, right, a professional A

comfortable place for people to come.

But when you go home after you had to unclog the toilet twice and then, you know, whatever might have happened, you know, the plumber that was supposed to come didn't come, etcetera, etcetera, When you go home and explain this story to your husband, do you want his response to be, well, you have to do it. Like, that's a part of your job and if you, you know, you have to do it. What would happen, Suzanne? Oh,

I'm just laughing right now thinking of what my response to that comment would be. You'd be enraged. Right? Oh, that's that's an understatement of the century and my kids will verify that one.

And then imagine if your if your husband said to you, now Suzanne, don't be disrespectful. This is your job. Right? Learn to deal with But imagine learn to deal with it. This is what kids and teens, the messages that they get.

Right? Oh my gosh. It's not good. It's My not house good and the roof would blow off. So the point being, Suzanne's going blow the roof off her house.

Our kids feel that way if we say you have to do it, You know, if that's our response.

We're just not going to get anywhere in

that So step one. Step one. Your child's struggling with school is pointless. I don't understand the relevance of pre calculus. I don't give a damn.

Am I allowed to say that? I guess I am. This is YouTube, right? We have to click a button to I see don't even know. Whatever.

What was I even going to say? That they don't care about chemistry. Validate that. Align with that. There are classes, there are things that we remember about middle school and high school that we really didn't align with or enjoy, you know?

Or were so hard. There were

a few classes I took that to this day I couldn't wrap my head around. Like, there's no way I would have ever really learned it. Like, I just wasn't built for it.

And that's hard. There are parts of feel bad. Yes. And there are parts of school today where kids are really I mean, are smart and aware of things. Like they're wondering what is the point of this?

Right? Like AI is coming along. Right? Or climate change is coming along. Will the world bring up?

I have these really sort of big questions coming from kids and teens in my office. And then they're stuck memorizing the periodic table and they don't really get how that applies. So I think aligning, saying, yeah, that's hard. I bet school does feel outdated in some ways. Or I imagine it is hard to go to that class with that teacher each day.

And validation is not permission to then stop going to school or and I

think that's where a lot of parents get worried. You know, if I align with them on that or sit with them too long in the frustration, they're going to get the wrong idea that then they don't have to go. We can really separate those out. Validation is just trying to understand their perspective and staying with them in that and being able to acknowledge, like, it's really frustrating and hard to

do things that make no sense or you don't care about. And even when you said that, Suzanne, I kind of felt better. Right? Like imagining being that teen where someone's trying to understand me. Right?

And I think that's we often go to change or like I'm trying to convince you that you have to do something. I'm trying to change your perspective because maybe as a parent that makes me feel comfortable that you're just going to go to school. Right? Like some of this we have to be aware of our own stress and anxiety. But if we can come from the standpoint of like, I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong.

Right? That's not or that you have to. I'd like to understand what makes school so hard for you. Right? Or what you experience in your day because I'm not there with you.

And we don't know. It's a long time all day long that our kids are somewhere else having an entirely different experience that we don't know. And I think it's important to honor that and let them be the expert on their school day. Let them be the expert on how they experience it. So that's number one.

Really just allow them to be where they are, validate that that's hard, and be curious. Right? Validate them and be curious about what their day is like so you can understand. And if they're really stuck in that question of what is it all worth, like what am I gaining because I'm not going to use chemistry, right? I have to give credit to my husband on what I would like to put as step two here.

Recently, we were sort of in a group activity. My husband happened to be speaking to a teenager that was there who was a sophomore in high school who was giving a very similar offering a similar perspective to this question, the student in this question. And this blew my mind because he just said, you know what? Have you ever seen The Karate Kid? And this young man said, yeah, I've seen The Karate Kid.

And he said, well, remember when oh god. Mr. Thank you. Mr. Miyagi was having not Ralph Macchio.

What's his name? Dan? Well, that was the actor's name,

but I don't know. Was like, I had Ralph Macchio's poster. No, no. Okay. It was Ralph Macchio.

Susan, do

I you think it was Daniel. Ralph when Mr. Miyagi was having Daniel, paint the fence, paint the fence, paint the fence, he and my husband said to this young man, do you know he wasn't teaching him to paint the fence, was he? And then this young man said, no. He was teaching him how to be patient and how to ultimately hold himself for karate.

And he said and my husband then said, well, that's kind of like school. I was like, woah, where is he? Like, it's 07:00 in the morning. Yeah, I love this. Because it's true.

Mr. Miyagi wasn't teaching him to paint the fence. He was teaching him patience and the ability to work hard and how to he was giving him muscle memory of how to hold himself and showing him that he was capable of completing a really hard task.

Right? At times a boring and frustrating task, if I'm remembering that correctly.

For sure. And that is what school is for a lot of people. It's boring and frustrating, but you're learning and growing. And certainly as you watch that movie, it's a very empowering movie. And that young Daniel learns a lot, right?

And so it's kind of and not all teachers are going to necessarily feel like Mr. Miyagi or have that end point where you come to that realization. But it's not just the exact skill they're teaching you in the classroom that's going to help you long term, right? It's going to build your knowledge, your capacity, your conscientiousness, your ability to work hard. Mhmm.

Right? Resilience to learn how to face challenges. Yes. Work with other people. I mean, on and on.

The less Yeah. We can

And that really builds character. Right? And character builds confidence, right? Like getting through some of these difficult things also can build confidence for kids. And so, you know, kind of letting our kids know that, yeah, you may not use chemistry.

Like, a reality. I wouldn't fight that point. Right? But there are things you're learning that you're going to take into the future that are really going to help you.

Know? Innate skills or things you learn about yourself or about how you work or other people that there's learning and growing taking place, it may just not directly always be the topic

at And we can say, and that's really hard. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And quite frankly, as an adult, like I think you mentioned this recently in a podcast we learn a lot from doing things that we don't want to do.

And in our lives, in our jobs right now, we have to do things that we don't want to do. I can speak for myself. I love working directly with our clients, right? With the families and teenagers and children that we work with. Adults as well.

Like, love that. There are certain parts of the management of the business side of a clinical practice I don't love that are boring, the administrative parts of that. Unclogging the toilet when there are people in the waiting room, when you know, the plumber won't come. I don't love that either. Right?

And yet we have to do it. Yeah. Right? And so, you know, that's I just think there's a lot of learning and growth there that we can let our kids know they're gaining even if it feels like they're not. And if a

teen is willing to hear this perspective, and it's interesting you're saying that your husband gave it to a teen that I'm assuming was not your own, right? If a teen is open to this, it helps give them another perspective on school, right? So one way to think about it might be, this is a waste of time. I'm never going to use this. And another way to look at school, if you feel like it, if you want, right, is that you're building skills.

You're building skills. You're building capacities. And I

think in this environment that we're you know, with AI, there's a lot of uncertainty for all of us, you know, in terms of we don't know exactly what the job market is going to look like five, ten years from now. So we don't know for our children exactly what But though AI might change the tools that we use and how we approach life, you still need human capacity, you know, and ingenuity to use those tools. They're just tools. Right? And so you want to be adaptable and be resilient and be interested so you can kind of like wax on, wax off, right, what life throws at you.

Yep. Whatever it might be.

So that's step one is validate and meet them where they are. Step two is is it wax on, wax off? Is it painting the fence or is it I'm like I'm thinking wax I think it's two different things. Wax off.

We're gonna have to rewatch this.

I've got to rewatch the movie because wax on wax off just came to my brain. No.

That's a saying. But then the painting I think was different. Was he waxing like a

car window? I don't know.

Luigi, any idea? I couldn't tell you.

Alright. We don't know.

There's three of us in the room and none of us None

of us know. So maybe maybe that's gonna be our what now? We should not. That's okay. Done.

We'll get to that in a minute. One thing I do want to highlight for that minor distraction there.

Forget that we already revealed that. Still listen to the end. We got more.

We got more for you. So you can just educate your kid that that's sort of a bigger picture of what school is giving you. That said, school can also be very frustrating for kids. Right? And frustration, you know, we just last week's episode was on opposite action, right, and acting opposite to emotions to change how you feel.

Oftentimes frustration makes people feel like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this or this is too hard.

Yeah. Right? This isn't for me. I should give up.

And I think highlighting that learning isn't easy. And in fact, sometimes being frustrated in the learning process is a sign that you're actually in the learning process. Right? Because if something just comes immediately, there's probably not a lot of learning involved. You know?

So highlighting that, that you're growing your brain, right? You're growing new connections.

And I think likening that sometimes, you know, if you have an athlete or someone, you know, like when you're learning a new skill or lifting up a heavier weight or right, sometimes we can liken it to other things that are outside the academic arena, you know, that it's really challenging to do pull ups, you know, and at first. But then when you keep doing them over time, it gets easier and more manageable to do or you feel more successful or capable of approaching it. Right. And that's exactly it.

Sort of going through those frustrations or that difficulty brings that resilience where you're stronger if you're doing the pull ups. But your brain is also more adaptable. It has greater capacity when you get through it. I also think when kids do get through that frustrating kind of learning place, you know, to where they actually master a concept, it actually brings them a great sense of accomplishment, which affects their mood and can be a positive thing.

And I've even seen kids who have, you know, worked through something and kind of made it to the end of a course and they haven't mastered the concept or the information. Yep. And yet, they still can take away from it, I survived it. Like, I did it. Like, I modeled through and maybe I got a C or maybe, you know, whatever it was.

So like even if they don't kind of in the end get good at something or get better at it, that feeling of accomplishment of like, I survived it or I did it, even when it was really hard, also can feel really good.

Can feel really good and also can be something that you pull on in the future when you face hard things. Because when you face hard things and get through it, it's something you can pull on. Well, you know what? If I got through that, if I got through pre calculus, maybe I can get through this difficult thing at work now, too. It matters and it's important.

I will say, just to highlight, just to throw out there, there is sort of a sweet spot here, right, in terms of the frustration piece. Because, you know, in terms of learning, if someone's bored out of their mind and doing very well in school or maybe bored out of their mind and not putting effort in, it may be that the work is a little too easy for the child or teen. But if your teen is frustrated at a great level and it leads to more of like a shutdown or avoidance or complete unwillingness, it actually may be that the work's just a little too challenging. And this is something in the world where a lot of parents feel very pressured and students feel very pressured to take the highest level of whatever they think is right for them. And sometimes you can get really overloaded.

And sometimes that frustration is really a sign that the work may be a little bit too challenging, might be leading to the kind of statement like this is pointless is really just like I'm burned out. And so you say this is pointless because it feels like, you know, too much. So I think it's something for a parent to keep an eye to, you know, that there is we want our kids to have effort and try and encourage them if they're feeling a bit frustrated that sometimes things are hard to move forward. But if it's really, really too challenging, that may be a time, you know, to sort of pull back. Yeah.

Ask some other questions and try to figure out why this is so challenging, right? Is it that the content or material is too difficult? Is it that a young person has a learning disability? Right. You know, do they have ADHD?

And when things you know, it's hard for everyone to be in a course that feels boring or frustrating or difficult. But for a young person with ADHD Yeah. That's actually even harder. So, you know, are there things here that we're missing out on that are leading to greater amounts of frustration and difficulty that actually need to be addressed in some way. Do we need some accommodations?

Do we need a class change? Right. You know, is this time for a young person to look towards medication? Like, you know, there might be a number of options.

So you sort of did that kind of pivot over to sort of the clinical realm, right? Yeah. And so I almost see this as three different things, but like all in the same you know, the amazing thing about humans is that we all can learn, Right? And no matter what stage or what place we are, we all can learn. Right?

But finding that sweet spot for learning for someone, right? I talked about, you know, maybe work being a little, you know, under challenging or whatever if someone's bored and not engaged or whatever. Or the work may be being too challenging and so we might want to pull back a little bit and that could lead to the school is pointless kind of feeling. But Suzanne is saying, and sometimes that's enough just to kind of identify that. But if you're seeing your child become increasingly disengaged, you know, seeing mood changes or real unwillingness or drop off at school, it's absolutely appropriate to just check-in with the school, check-in with the guidance counselor, what do they think, you know, because there are sometimes that there is a clinical issue.

You know, it could be just social struggles at school that are impacting them or perfectionism that's impacting them or, you know, like you Yeah, they

have huge breakup. And for a couple weeks or for a semester, you know, they're really struggling. But we don't want to eliminate the possibility that it might be more if a teen is really struggling with some anxiety, depression, if they have ADHD, a learning disability.

So just if you have a hinkering towards that, loop in a school counselor. Just get a consult, you know, or your pediatrician. I find it helpful just to have another adult to run things by if I'm unsure. You know? Okay.

So we validated. The school feels really pointless, right? We

Trying to offer another perspective of one way to look at school. Right.

That it's not necessarily about the chemistry. It may be about how you're growing your brain and your possibilities in the future. That resilience that you'll take into life. And we have a lot of, you know, research that supports that. And then, you know, try to aim for that sweet spot, you know, or keep that in mind.

I also think at times it can be helpful to give your teen or tween kind of a little bit of a reality check. You know, because teens really respond to being respected and being treated, like an adult and being given information, right? And not to mince words, but education does increase options, right? If you graduate from high school, you're going to mean, you can look at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics to see this. If you graduate from high school, you're going to have better job opportunities and have more financial opportunities than if you don't For the graduate rest of your lifetime.

On average. Right? Not necessarily everyone, right? Know?

There are always stories of people who do that Sure.

Who are incredibly you know, but most careers require some sort of training, some sort of credentialing, some sort of responsibility that even goes beyond, you know, high school, it may go beyond college. And having the experience of challenging yourself in high school or in middle school, it matters because it's going to help you get to where you want to go. And so that is just something to keep in mind. You're learning things in high school, certainly and that goes throughout education. Of course, if people are able to get an associate's degree or go to, you know, complete a four year degree or even do graduate work, on average, not automatic, but on average, that does link to different opportunities in life.

And I think

you're right. Sometimes just presenting something as facts of like, here, I just want to provide you with this information. You can do with it what you want. I've had a number of students through the years, you know, talk with me when they've been really struggling and say like, maybe I'll just get my GED. A GED is wonderful and valid option for many people.

Yeah.

And I have family members

who have GEDs. Yeah. So I'll say to them, great, let's do some research and let's just kind of get the information of what the difference is in terms of kind of employment opportunities, financial just so that you know on So the Yeah. And then you can make the decision. Do we shift gears and move towards the GED?

Or do you want

to try to find a way to maintain high school and complete it this way? But what I love about that too and right is that you're problem solving. You're involving them in evaluating their opportunities. I also have worked with people who have decided to get a GED and then use that GED to go to community college and go to college, right? And because high school wasn't for them.

Lots of problem solving that can be done, you know, for someone who's in this feeling. You know, you're not stuck. You don't have to be stuck. And so I think that's we do then, you know, go from here to problem solving. The one thing I just want to add in is teens are really good at coming up with options.

So what I just said, like, you know, that education does increase your options in different ways for different jobs or different financial possibilities. Kids are ready. You know what I mean? They're coming at you, and they're gonna say, well, mister Beast, you know, who's a big YouTuber for those of you who may not know this, you know, makes millions of dollars, you know? And he I don't know if he went to high school with that, but no disrespect, Mr. Beast.

I think you're amazing. But the thing about Mr. Beast is he worked really hard.

Oh, yeah. Wrote goals because I do

know He actually a little taped a goal when he was like 14 or 16 or something and put it out there and then he met those goals. But Mr. Beast is like less than the less of 1%. He might be in the 0.1%. There are millions of YouTube channels. And maybe your teen will be.

Could be. But what's most likely, it's still helpful to not rely on that. You know what I mean? So they're gonna come ready, whether it's want to be you know, the NBA players don't have to, but they actually do, I think. I think they have to graduate high school, NBA players, and I think they need a year.

I'm making this up. But there are rules about this where it's

not as easy as it seems. Irregardless of whatever level of education they need to complete or not complete, they are, in whatever area they are doing, they are working diligently and incredibly hard. Most people are not an overnight success from sitting on their couch, right? People are doing incredible amounts of work, which again goes back to the example, you know, wax on, wax off or painting the fence. That it doesn't have to be school, but that there are things that you do in life that you grow and you learn from.

Yep. And that building those skills and capabilities are what's really important here. Right. So even if your child then is, I'm going to be in the NBA, Okay, how are you working towards that?

What can And be what's involved in that? And then you might look in and see, you actually need to be a high school graduate, you know, or you're out. There was something I read about this. And then you learn that. And that's, I think, the next step.

So after that reality check, if that's needed, right? After the validation and the wax on, wax off analogy, if that is appropriate, you know, and assessing their sweet spot at school and the reality check, then problem solve. What are the specifics of school? What do you really care about? Some kids this is not all kids some kids in high school have an idea of what they might like to do ultimately.

Those kids are amazing. I was not that kid. But then if you're that parent, can say, okay, well, let's go look up. Just like you said with the NBA player. What's involved in that?

You know, do you need a fourth year of science for that in high school? Maybe you don't. Maybe we can drop that. Right? Or if we think smaller for a young person who doesn't know yet, which is totally appropriate, what they want to have an interest in doing in their lives, saying, okay, what's the best part of school?

Right? And can we increase that a little bit? What's the hardest part of school And is there a way to take the pressure off that? Guidance counselors are wonderful in helping families problem solve this. Do we add in an extra study hall and not have to do we just lower the intensity of one of the classes if the class is too hard?

Is there a

teacher that a kid loves that they could wind up trying to be with that teacher? I've worked with a lot of kids where I've said they enjoy one class where there's movement or they're making something. Has nothing to do with a future interest. They just like not having to sit. So is there a shop course?

Is there the culinary course? In photography, do they let them walk around the school? Like, we try every semester to get one class Yeah. That just feels like they can move or they do something fun. It doesn't take away the difficulty of the rest of day, but it gives them one thing

to look forward to. And isn't that better to get through your day to know, Okay, I have that culinary class with that teacher that I really like and I can sort of exhale. Right? And I think really building that into the day is important. It's important for kids.

And so with this problem solving, this is not failure. This is where you're winning. I think parents worry sometimes, well, if he drops that class or if he goes this different path, that will lead to something bad. It may actually lead to the best thing, right? To your child feeling valued, for your child actually becoming more engaged in school and more interested and feeling better about themselves.

And I've just seen wonderful shifts in kids for this, when I've also seen some toxic stress in kids that are overwhelmed or doing a bunch of classes that are just a little bit too much. The one last thing I'll say before What Now is, with everything we've just said, it is okay to hold boundaries at the same time. It is, you know, meaning you can validate their feelings, you can problem solve with, you know, your teen going into different courses or, you know, switching to a study hall or whatever it might be, but also saying, yeah, and you have to complete Algebra two. That's a requirement. You can hate it and you have to do it.

Right? We can try to figure out how to help you hate it less. Right? And so we can validate, respect, understand and also say, and we have to do it. I'm gonna help you get I'll try to help you with your school day otherwise, but we have

to do that. And sometimes you can add in and here's why. Because I know down the line there's going to be more things like this. And I want you to be someone who can get things done even when it stinks and even when you don't like it. I want you to have that wife.

Okay, Suzanne.

I think this is going to lead into what we're talking about next week. What was my what now? Because Watch The Karate Kid. Oh my gosh, that's the best what now. Okay, because I was going to say something much more academic, like school builds capacity and blah blah blah.

No. I've been feeling totally relaxed because I'm like, woof. We're already done. We figured it out.

We don't We have figured out to the what now?

Whip this up. Alright. So our what now

for this week is watch The Karate Kid. But before you do that, please rate and review. If you're watching on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, please go in there and just say, hey, we'd like to listen to these people again. And give us a high star rating, if you will. Oh, I like it.

And because it takes me a very long time often to do things on my to do list, if you figure out the wax on, wax off before we do, feel free to send us a message after you've watched it and let us know what we're talking about. Because we don't know.

As always, have a great week. Bye. And now a quick word from our lawyers. The Parenting Pair Podcast is designed for informational and educational purposes only. Do not rely on the information presented in this podcast as a substitute or replacement for professional psychological or medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

If you have concerns about you or a family member's well-being, please contact a licensed mental health professional or physician.