When There Is No Fix: How to Support Your Child Through Suffering and Life’s Challenges

The more we work to resist, eventually it feels a little less uncomfortable, right, to just let's say, I don't have a solution. I think my only sort of solution is is, okay, that thing that you told me is really important for you to do. I want you to try to make one step take one step toward it. And maybe you're not in a place where you can do the whole thing right now or you can, you know, fully live out the experience you're hoping to have, but is there one little thing that you might be able to do with this heavy emotion, you know, by your side?

Welcome back to the Parenting Pair Podcast. I'm Dr. Suzanne Allen and I'm Dr. Annalise Caron.

And we're really excited because we have a guest here joining us today, Dr. Taryn Allen, who is a clinical psychologist who works in and owns her own private practice, but for many years worked at the National Cancer Institute at the National Institute of Health in Washington DC. And at that time, her work was really focused on helping kids and their families face fear and uncertainty and really difficult things that are not so easily changeable in life. And while her work has since taken her to kind of a broader place in working with kids and teens and families with a multitude of concerns. We think that her background and her experience and her knowledge in supporting young people through really difficult things is just incredibly relevant for all of us, and we hope that it'll be really helpful for everyone listening today.

Welcome. Welcome, Taryn.

Thank you. Thank you both for having me here today. I'm thrilled to be here to talk with you both.

Wonderful. I wonder if just to sort of start us off, could you frame a little bit about the work that you had done in the past with, you know, at NIH, at the Cancer Institute, and then we'll sort of ease into the work you're doing now, and really maybe how some of that relates to each other?

Yeah, of course. I'm happy to happy to speak about that. So I worked at the National Cancer Institute on-site for about five years, and then, I continued with them for a couple of years remotely, after I relocated to Connecticut. And at the NCI, I was working with child and adolescent patients and also adult patients, many of whom were parents who were facing chronic or, in some cases, terminal conditions.

Mhmm.

And the extent of hardship and the intensity of these experiences was undeniable. And it really pulled for different sort of approach to supporting these individuals Mhmm. Than I had had success with or found to be valuable when working with folks who weren't who weren't facing such incredibly, in life changing circumstances. And I think the work that I did there, while it, you know, was valuable for those patients, I do find has translated, you know, more broadly to a population of folks facing a wide range of circumstances.

Mhmm.

And I'm happy to speak a little bit about, you know, the framework that I kind of came to while I was at the NCI, if that would be helpful.

I think that would be I think and I knowing a bit about your work, I do think what you're about to share with us certainly is highly relevant for people facing very difficult times or serious medical illness, but also our perspectives and, you know, skills and approaches to understanding humanity, you know, that's good for all of us. So I would love to hear more about that framework.

Yeah, of course. You know, I was trained I'm going to step back a second and just sort of talk about coming into my work at the NCI in sort of a therapist role. I had been trained quite strongly in approaches that, you know, helped us look at scenarios from different perspectives. You know, it was a lot of, okay. Let's look at the evidence for that sort of concern.

Let's, can we look at it in a different way? And I think that model is really valuable in many instances. But when I was walking into a room with a patient who was facing a terminal condition or who was facing a chronic condition that profoundly impacted their health and well-being, it was hard to find a perspective or a frame Mhmm. That that was different than this is really hard. And so it it pulled me into a space where where I really had to make a paradigm shift and sort of acknowledge sit with those those clients, those patients, and really acknowledge the gravity of these circumstances, right, of this hardship that would have been otherwise so invalidating to to deny.

And it's a real journey to try to accept something or even kind of lean into something that is so that that we so wish wasn't the case, that we that we wish could be different. But I do think that sort of acknowledgment, you know, with the the patients I was I was working with was sort of the first step in helping them live a life that was still deeply meaningful and could be as fulfilling as possible under, you know, the most unimaginable of circumstances.

It's so interesting for you to use the term sort of that this is the first step because I imagine that step is such a gigantic leap and also a step that would need to be taken over and over and over again. You know, it it just feels like a very big step. Yeah. And a real change in approach to understanding we can't just change this. Know?

Yeah. Suffering. Yeah. Right? And kind of, I imagine for you as a clinician, but also for individuals, kind of fighting that urge sometimes to, well, maybe if we do this, what else could we do?

Or is the doctor right? I don't know. Just some of those where we're really trying to change something.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, think in many ways, the idea that I'm going to acknowledge or sort of make space for pain feels contrary to sort of our evolutionary urge. Right? We don't wanna feel pain as humans.

We want to feel okay. We want to avoid pain. And I think we are sort of hardwired to move in that direction. And, you know, I think under circumstances where, you know, we can avoid discomfort and there you know, that'd be sort of the easy path. Yeah.

Sure. Why not take it? But certainly for, you know, the patients I was seeing in, this hospital setting, and and to be honest, even for many of the patients that I, you know, work with, you know, in my practice in town where perhaps it's not a a terminal condition that they're facing, but some other stressor, the first step is often, let's acknowledge how hard this is. Let's, you know, let's kind of move toward the storm a little bit see if we can find a way to work with it rather than just try to run-in the other direction.

Mhmm. Avoidance is so appealing sometimes, right? Absolutely. It's an understandable approach.

Yeah.

And it feels like you're, oh, sorry about that, feels like you're doing something.

Right. It

feels very active and so to have to It's such a It can take such effort, you know. I know we've talked about in our work, you know, to not do something, to not fight something, to allow something to be takes a lot of effort, takes a lot of presence. But not fighting with that thing or running from that thing, I think what is is is part of what you're getting at that will help someone be able to move forward.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. There there's a Native American saying be the buffalo. Have you have you either of you heard of that?

No. Yeah. Yeah. It's it comes from the the observation of, you know, essentially how does a buffalo versus a cow manage stormy weather. Right?

And so observations of these two large animals sort of showed that when a cow senses a storm, right, and these animals are also deeply intuitive and attuned, their course of action is to walk away. Right? So I'm gonna go in the opposite direction. When a cow walks away from a storm, what ends up happening is the storm sort of follows them, and they end up being in the storm for a longer length of time. Buffalo, on the other hand, walk toward the storm.

And, you know, again, it's a really it seems counterintuitive. Why am I gonna move towards something that may cause in great discomfort, may threaten me in some way? But when buffalo walk toward the storm, they the storm then passes over them, and they get out of it faster. That distress and that the the intensity of that experience doesn't linger. And so that idea, like, be the buffalo, right, that these, you know, these animals know so intuitively.

I'm like, let's take a tip from that. And can we, in some ways, be the buffalo? Right? Can we move toward the thing that is uncomfortable and that is really hard? And maybe in doing so, we will also find a path toward relief.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

How I love that.

I love that too. It was reminding me, which I haven't thought about in years, but earlier on, with similar ideas, those finger traps that people use, you know, and you try to pull out of the finger trap and then you're stuck, but if you can lean in, you know, that's how you're able to move through it.

Right. It's like the action of leaning in actually, it helps us make space Mhmm. Rather than sort of engage in the battle. Right? When we're trying to, like, pull apart, pull apart, that just our energy gets spent like a battle mode.

Right? Right. And and, you know, we as humans have we're limited of limited resource. Right? We don't have, you know, limit limitless levels of energy to face the things that we need to face during the day or sort of manage during the day.

So I think one of the questions that, you know, we would come to or I would come to with, you know, patients I was working with was, can we can we make space for this hardship and sort of acknowledge, you know, that this is here and this is sort of a piece of your story? And, you know, if if we can do that, if we can make that space, maybe we can use the remainder of our energy to do the things that are important or that, you know, are meaningful. And and how do we live, you know, a life filled with value and fulfillment even while this really difficult thing is going on? Mhmm. And I think that just has a lot of relevance for for all of us.

Right? I mean, there's there's not a day I think most of us go by where there isn't some degree of, you know, struggle or strife or frustration. Right? Yeah. And can we can we sort of acknowledge it?

Yeah. Was just thinking how useful that must be to the the children and teens and adults that you work with in your private practice. Yeah. Kind of holding that framework that that you developed and really stepped into, you know, at NCI, but in people's everyday lives.

Absolutely. You know, I think especially working with kids and teens, there can be there's a fine line between sort of saying to someone who's young, who's still learning, who's still trying to figure out, you know, so much of what, you know, life is. I mean, heck, I think as adults, we still are trying to figure that out too. But when a child or a teen is going through something really difficult, it can feel so invalidating and just really land in the wrong way when we try to say, okay. Let's try to look at that from a different perspective, Or can we check the facts?

And then and there are times I even feel like when you know, if I'm gonna pull that sort of tool or strategy out, which does have its place. I I I don't mean to suggest that that doesn't have its place, but there are instances in which I find, you know, the individual in front of me is actually gonna, you know, dig their heels in a little deeper, and they're gonna get a little louder about Mhmm. The discomfort or the difficulty. And that can almost create a battle between either me and the client or if I'm thinking about myself and my own kids. Right?

That's so unhelpful. And one of the things that I I feel like helps us sort of get out of that that, you know, sort of battling space is like, you're just acknowledging, like, this is really hard. Right? And I I find myself saying, like, can you take that worry? Can you put it in your backpack, and can you carry it with you?

Mhmm. I'm not trying to say it's not there. I know it feels heavy. Right? It's harder to have that thing in your backpack than it would be if it wasn't there.

But we we have to find a way to work with it if you wanna be able to do these things that you're telling me are so important. And so trying to create, like, a workability to something that's scary or something that is, I don't know, deeply difficult or sad. Right? I think I really appreciate what you're saying about, you know, particularly with kids and tweens and teens, because so much of their lives are prescribed by other people. You have to do this.

You have to do that. You have to achieve this. You have to be here at

this time. Why didn't you do that? You shouldn't have done that. Right? And so there there are so many adults often giving teens this, you know, idea either that they're failing or they did it wrong or they shouldn't feel this way or they have to do it more quicker.

And so to just sit and say, yeah, that is really difficult. Or I can imagine that that was really hard for you and that you might wish that were different, and yet we we can't change it. Right? That whatever the thing is. You know?

And that can apply to so many things. That can apply to the f on the test. That can apply to a very significant loss, you know, or death in in their life. I mean, mean, there are so many things it can apply to. But it's I I think our own, as adults and and parents in particular, a lot of our listeners, of course, are parents, you know, is that wish to, like, change it, make it go away, problem solve, fix it, you know.

I think so many of us can fall prey to that, you know, and how but how helpful it is for a teenager to just be seen and heard and maybe sit with that feeling that maybe they don't even want to sit with, but certainly makes them feel seen and heard, which oftentimes they don't.

Right, right. I think that's a really good point around just, you know, the degree of prescription that especially as kids and teens as kids are sort of moving into adolescence. Right? And there is a pull for that autonomy, and, you know, there is so much prescription, and and that is, you know, meant to be helpful. Right?

And I I think largely, you know, it is helpful. But I think in this emotional space, it becomes very hard when someone's like, this is scary. And we we either, you know, come to a place where we're like, it's not a big deal. Right? But every time we say it's not a big deal, I think the, you know, the child or the teen might might come back with, like, in fact, it's a huge deal.

It's a bigger deal than I originally said. And so helping them work with this hardship I also think it it shifts the frame away from a good life as an easy life. And life just isn't easy. Right? And I I I want to I don't wanna sell that to anyone.

Right? Or sell the idea that in order to have a good life, you have to get it to a place where it is easy. Right. I think that sets us up for real difficulty, you know, at some at some point. Because life will get hard, maybe for a moment, maybe for years, maybe, you know, there's something, you know, that you are stuck with that really impacts you, you know, for the entirety of your life.

But finding a way to work with that, again, it just, like, shifts the paradigm. Right? And it gives us so much more opportunity to have to to walk along with what I would call a wide path. Right? Where, like, there's lots of joy.

There is hardship on the on the wide path. But there's equal opportunity or maybe more opportunity for things that are fulfilling and satisfying and fun and interesting. And so that's what I'm I'm trying to help people sort of see with these ideas.

I like the idea who you're describing that too as widening the path, because I think sometimes, you know, being resilient, which is obviously, an attribute we all would like to have and see in our children. But sometimes it can kind of quickly move to being resilient is putting a brave smile on your face, or just pushing right through it, and doing it, and not acknowledging that on this wide path as you're describing, there can be a lot of emotions, and there could be some days in bed, or there could be deep sadness. Right? And Yeah. So resilience doesn't just look like kind of snapping to it and and solving problems quickly, moving through, and never showing anyone that you're upset or feeling anything.

Yeah. Exactly. I think that that is entirely right, that we want to be able to flex with these experiences. We don't need to sort of push them down. Right?

And in fact, sometimes when we push them down, we end up exploding, you know, at some point anyway. Mhmm. We want to we want to work with them. And it's it's really interesting too, I think, on a, you know, kinda human to human level. So often, if someone's having an emotional moment or having a hard time and they share it with somebody else, right, it it it's so relatable.

People are like, wow. Me too. I've had that. Right? And I think that increases the sense of connection and, you know, it it makes people feel less alone than when they're, you know, pushing it down and it's sort of like this, you know, I wanna look perfect or I want things to seem perfect even though I'm deeply struggling.

And I think that makes the struggle bigger internally. I think it makes it harder for you to get the support that you might need from peers or colleagues or, you know, whom parents. Right? Whomever.

Yeah. And I think sort of building on that, parents feel that pressure so much of the time. I think there's parents, I should be doing this, or I should know how to do this, or my child or my teen should be doing that. I'm curious if you'd be willing to speak to how you work with parents who may have significant anxiety maybe about, you know, a concern or a significant problem or difficulty their child may be facing. Or even just if their child you know, I certainly work with parents a lot whose children or teens have mental health concerns that maybe the parent isn't familiar with or the parent hasn't experienced.

And that can lead to, nope, wait. Anxiety gets so great that they just want to not they want to help their child or teen, but kind of inadvertently maybe like because they don't want to have it, they don't want to accept that thing, almost can help their child kind of look past it or not be willing to engage with it. So just could you speak a little bit? Because there are a lot of parents listening who I'm sure have worries about their kids or whose kids may have, you know, have some serious concerns going on, and that can feel so lonely, and it can be hard for parents to do just what you were saying, connect and be vulnerable with someone else who might be supportive. Any thoughts on sort of parents going through that and what advice you'd give or or or a metaphor you'd make or or or how could how do you approach that?

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think I I probably talk about it with parents in a very similar manner. I do think oftentimes, you know, parenting is so hard. Right?

Yes. It's just that it is the hardest gig. And I think about that for myself, and I come to parenting with this professional background that is Yeah. I think beneficial, but it's still really, really tough. And so I I I'd say, first of all, I take the stance, you know, for all of us parents.

Our intention is positive. We want to help our kids. Right? And so I Mhmm. I'd probably start with saying that out loud.

Like, I know the intention here is so positive, you know, and I think nobody ends up in my office who doesn't just deeply want to help their child. Right? Everybody is there because they love their child so much, and they they want their child to feel better. And so I I want to acknowledge that intention. Right?

And I use similar sorts of metaphor around, you know, if we are trying to get to a place where, you know, we want your child to feel better and they can only do this thing once they feel better. Like, that's just a really narrow road. And then what happens when a new sort of bump in the road pops up? Do we have to stop again? Do we have to, you know, move it out of the way?

Or can we find a way to work with those bumps? You know, I think the the metaphor of a wide path is one that resonates with a lot of parents. And we talk about, I think, some other metaphors that come to my mind are sort of, okay, it's like a pot with boiling water, and there's more, you know, heat underneath, then we have the lid on. We need to let kids, you know, open that lid. We need to let some of that steam out.

And I do think the home environment is a place where I want kids and teens to be able to talk openly. Right? It's a can feel like a safer place to sort of explore some of these emotions. Right? You know?

So I think giving them that space in the home environment feels particularly important because this can be scary to do with their friends sometimes. And sometimes their friends come to these emotions from a different perspective and are more in the, like, I don't know what to do with this. Right? There there can be instances where you know, kids and teens aren't equipped to help their friends with certain emotional experiences, but I I would hope in the home environment, we can make a little bit of space for them. Let that steam out.

Make it talkable. And then, you know, sometimes parents, they they don't know what to say. Right? They they want to kind of give that piece of advice, so their child doesn't feel stressed, or they see a way out, but their child just isn't there yet. And try to help parents with just more reflective statements.

Right? Like, that must feel feel really hard. Tell me how you're thinking about that. Right? Or I'm, like, really putting themselves in their shoes.

Right? What sort how do we provide empathy to our kids? Right? The empathy and validation can really help kids talk about things more. And I get it's just like making making something talkable.

Right? It that can be an intervention. Right? Just like, let's give you a place to talk about this at home. We don't even need to do anything.

We just need to let it be there.

But that's the thing, and I think that's something that even myself, and knowing and being familiar with a lot of what you're saying, Doctor. Allen We have two Doctor. Allens here, by the way, today. So when I say Doctor. Allen, we've got Doctor.

Allen and Doctor. Allen. So when I'm referring to Doctor. Allen, referring to our guest, Terren Allen, I think in those moments where parents are maybe opening the door and really trying to be present and supportive with their child or teen, it sometimes can feel like, well, now I am supposed to do something. Right?

And and and really trying to resist that pressure. Sometimes just being there and being present and letting the tears flow, if the tears are gonna flow, is so very healing. But but it you know, I I know myself, even sometimes I go to doing when it's okay to just be. And it's it's Yeah. And that and that's just it's effort to just be.

Yes. Yes. It requires quite a bit of self regulation. Right? Yeah.

I think and again, you know, I I think of this as sort of a something we have carried with us through evolution. Right? I think it's very dysregulating. We co regulate with our kids to a degree. Right?

It can be very dysregulating as parents. Right? You can feel your heart start to raise. You can feel hot as your, you know, child or your teen is sharing something really hard. Right?

And so coming back to one or two simple statements that you can sort of say either internally in your head. Right? This is okay. They're just they're just just having a lot of feelings right now. Or, you know, I know this is really hard.

You know, I want you to know I see how hard it is. And just, you know, kind of on repeat, I think to help ground us. And when we start to you know, when we get too carried away in our sort of thoughts, that's where I think we, you know, can kind of pull us in a space of advice giving that ends up not always being helpful. Or we get into a space that they would call, I think in our field, you know, kind of professionally, it's like the demand, like demanding that our kids not feel something. And I know that's not the intention.

Right? We wanna but I think sometimes it comes out that way. And so trying to come to a place of more support, more understanding. Right? And I think gentle encouragement outside of those really emotional moments.

Right? Let let a you know, your child or your teen settle. And then when they're a little bit calmer, it's like, okay. I know this is really hard. I also know this is really important to you.

You know, can we take that? I I I use the backpack metaphor. Can we, you know, take the anxiety with you? Or can we take that sadness and let's put it in your pocket for a moment? I know it's gonna feel heavy.

And can we go do the thing? Right? And so I think the attention to the behavior, right, regardless of what the emotion is, can be a really helpful frame too. Right? We're gonna focus on sort of the actions and sort of taking the emotion with us.

And we don't have to get rid of the emotion in order to pursue the the thing that our child or teen wants to do.

Yeah. I really appreciate those visual images of the backpack and the pocket and that acknowledgment that those things can still exist. Because I think sometimes there's you know, inadvertently a message we give to ourselves and to other people, you know, to stop feeling scared, and then you can do the thing. So you need to, you know, get rid of the fear, and then you can go do it. And that's a setup, because if you're high sedated kids all the time, I think if you're afraid, you're going to be afraid.

Don't have an object thing that's going to solve that. And the You can do. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. A 100%. I mean, I use I will sometimes use examples from my own life.

I hate flying. Right? I am scared every time I get on the airplane. Right? Yep.

And I really wanna go on that trip, or it's really important for me to go, you know, to this meeting. And so we get on the the airplane and carry the anxiety and, you know, just sort of move forward and put one foot in front of the other. And eventually, it does get easier with that sort of repetition. Right? When we when we move forward and we have the feeling with us, the feeling sometimes it actually goes away.

Right? Sometimes something that was scary becomes not so scary. Other times, it still feels scary, but we just we're more familiar with it. Right? We're like, oh, this is like, you know, this is just anxiety.

Here it is again. It's not this big, weighty, heavy thing like it can feel when we're trying not to have it. Right? When we're trying to push it down, it feels like it it holds so much power over us. We just want it to be another this is just like another feeling.

Right? Like a not a big deal.

I I think too, and I'm just jumping back a second, that that actually that same idea really applies to all of us as parents when and I would say myself as a clinician too when sitting with a young person who is really suffering. Because I think a lot of those statements, those reflective statements I thought were so helpful. And then I think where a lot of parents get stuck, and myself included, and I've had this happen at the end of sessions too, where it feels like I need to wrap something up with a bow and help someone feel good by the end of the conversation. So I find that a lot and I don't know if you find this in your that a lot of parents can get more comfortable with the idea of staying with their child or teen in a difficult conversation and just validating. But

as

they get towards the end of the conversation, it can feel really hard to to, like, end it there.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I I think that's a really good point. I mean, I definitely, you know, as a clinician feel a sense of, like, internal pressure.

But I also I mean, I I feel that as a parent too when, you know, I can think about instances recently where I've had that sort of pull to, you know, fix even though I I'm like, there's nothing I could do to fix this. Right? And I think noticing that, right, that, you know, us naming that here is really important. I I think, again, we are we are both socialized and hardwired to avoid messes. Right?

Mhmm. I think, especially, you know, in in our community here, you know, I think we don't like that. It doesn't feel good. We don't also see a lot of examples of it. Right?

Or the examples we see feel really threatening. Right? But it's I I think the more we, you know, work to resist, eventually, it feels a little less uncomfortable, right, to just let's say, I don't have a solution. I think my only sort of solution is it's okay. That thing that you told me is really important for you to do.

I want you to try to make one step like, take one step toward it. Right? And maybe you're not in a place where you can do the whole thing right now, or you can, you know, fully live out the experience you're hoping to have. But is there one little thing that you might be able to do with this heavy emotion, you know, by your side? And trying to persist.

And, you know, again, it's like one step in front of the one foot in front of the other. Right? I think one step at a time.

I think that's so helpful too, just the framing that parents are parenting for the long haul. Right? Sometimes we wanna change it in the episode or in the instance or in the situation, But everything you're describing, making that wider path, allowing for our kids and teens' emotions, maybe, like Suzanne, you were saying, not being able to fix it or tie it up in a bow in a moment, maybe maybe that is the thing that allows the child or teen or yourself to move through a bit so that tomorrow or next week or in a month, you can, you know, take that step. As you were talking, doctor Allen, I was thinking about just myself when I'm feeling great emotion, and or if I need to grieve or or or release or emote or whatever. And if I share that with someone, you know, my spouse or whatever, you know, if he were to if he were to allow me to have all of those feelings and be supportive and be present with it and then say, when I'm just like, okay.

Alright. Thank you. And then he was like, now what are we gonna do? You know, now you need to do this. I think that would it would be too much.

Right? Like, I had just had just got through, you know? And we need to keep

that in mind for our kids and teens. I think sometimes that feels awkward, right? After someone has shared something painful, difficult they're facing, to then sit with them and then say, Okay, I'll see you tomorrow, I'll see you later, or, Okay, I'm going go cook dinner right now. But I think as you were talking about before, kind of getting used to walking with the fear in your pocket or doing this with some sadness in your heart, that I think practicing ending a conversation with, I'm here with you and I love you. I'm I'm always willing to hear this when you're suffering or I'm glad you told me enough.

And that we can get more used to that. I think I've been lucky enough to have that practice as our work dictates it. That sometimes someone leaves a session and I am filled with sadness for them or grief or worry, but that sometimes we just end looking at each other and saying, I'm glad you came in and shared this. I'll be here next week. You can always reach out if you need me during the week.

And I have to fight that I want to say something like, but I know you'll feel better next week. But I think it's really hard with our kids too, but maybe if we can practice that too, getting more comfortable with the uncomfortable of just being with them. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like this it's sort of like as the recipient of somebody else's emotion, right, somebody sharing with you, whether you're in your parenting role or in, you know, for us as clinicians, I think there is sort of a a secondary, okay, I have to make space for their emotion. Right? We need to allow them to make space, but I too, right, need to just allow it to be there. Right?

And so, And allow my own discomfort here to there's like layers of space we're trying to create for all the feeling in the room.

I I honestly what you just described, doctor Allen, I coach myself sometimes. Like, I can allow myself I I can allow my teenager to have these emotions, and I can sit and be like, I can I can allow him or her to have this moment, even though it's highly distressing for me? I can be present. Like, I'll literally coach myself to, like, you know, in my mind, not out loud, because that would quickly end the situation. I find it's really helpful.

I can because really, if you get down to it in this moment, all you have to do is be present with this emotion, and I can allow him or her to have it without trying to change it, without even though it's scaring me or even though it's overwhelming me. And and I find when I remind myself of that, it does sort of calm me a bit because there's a bit of acceptance there that I am sitting here in this moment and I am choosing to stay, and I can allow for that wider path that includes maybe I'd like a little narrower path without that much, but in this moment, I'm in a wider path.

Yeah. Yeah. I found that so soothing just when you said that, of we have to make space. Yeah. Because I think, you know, sometimes as parents, we can see a path where things could be different or improved, and other times we don't.

Our teen really is facing something that is not going to change or get better, and that can be so hard to hold space for them to feel pain and suffering. It feels so counter to kind of our instincts as parents and other humans. But when you said that, I found that incredibly soothing. You know, it will help me to make space for them to feel this as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I like those sort of internal statements, right, that we all need to to sort of say. And I think this is like it brings you to this idea of, you know, being mindful and sort of being in the moment and trying not to judge the moment.

Right? I think sometimes mindfulness can feel a little fluffy in our our field, or I I find, like, clients sometimes find it a little bit fluffy and it sort of falls flat. But I think when we when we're thinking about, okay, being in the moment, it's like that sort of thing. Being self aware, noticing what you're feeling, just, like, allowing it to be there. Right?

Staying grounded, and sometimes, you know, I find myself saying, like, just sit here, just stay present, just stay present, just be here, right, over and over, in my head, right, not out loud.

I have to say, Doctor. Allen, I am so grateful that you chose to spend some time with us today. I'm so glad that you decided to be present with us because I think it's a really helpful reminder that we all need to remind ourselves that sometimes life isn't just about what you're doing, but it might be being, just being, you know, in any moment. And like you say, you can can work on the doing and carry the emotion with the doing, but sometimes we have to work sometimes we have to work on accepting the moment in the moment.

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you both for having me again.

Yeah. Thank you for your time, and for everyone listening, if you enjoyed this episode, as we very evidently did, we would love for you to rate and review us online. And if you have any ideas or questions or things that you would love for us to address or guests maybe you think would be really helpful to hear from, please reach out to us at hellotheparentingpair dot com or DM us on Instagram at The Parenting Pair. Yeah.

As always, thank you so much. Thank you, Doctor. Allen, and have a great day. Thank you. And now a quick word from our lawyers.

The Parenting Pair Podcast is designed for informational and educational purposes only. Do not rely on the information presented in this podcast as a substitute or replacement for professional psychological or medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have concerns about you or a family member's well-being, please contact a licensed mental health professional or physician.